Pradžia » Kultūra » Grigorijus Kanovičius: „Geros naujienos šiandieniniame pasaulyje neskuba į mūsų namus“

Grigorijus Kanovičius: „Geros naujienos šiandieniniame pasaulyje neskuba į mūsų namus“

By Svajūnas Sabaliauskas │ adiena.lt

 

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius (asmeninio albumo nuotr.)

Rašytojas prozininkas, dramaturgas, vertėjas, scenarijų autorius ir režisierius Grigorijus Kanovočius – vienas populiariausių rašytojų, gimusių Lietuvoje. Rašytojas su meile kalba apie gimtąjį kraštą, jo knygos milijoniniais tiražais išleistos užsienyje. „Airijos diena“ savo skaitytojams siūlo pokalbį su rašytoju, kuris šiuo metu gyvena Izraelyje. Žinomą rašytoją kalbino Svajūnas Sabaliauskas.

Gerbiamas rašytojau, 2014 metų gruodžio viduryje paskelbta, kad jums skirta Nacionalinė kultūros ir meno premija. Širdies gilumoje, manau, jutote, kad ji bus skirta. Sakykite, kaip jums atrodo: kodėl tiek ilgai jos reikėjo laukti?

Kiekvienas profesionalus rašytojas, net grafomanas, paslapčia arba atvirai laukia likimo dovanos – kuris Nobelio premijos, kuris Bukerio ar kokio nors kito garbingo apdovanojimo. Aš visados laukiau skaitytojų pripažinimo, nors neslėpsiu – tikėdavausi įvertinimo ir aukštesniame lygmenyje. Juk tikėti ir laukti, ačiū Dievui, dar nedraudžiama.

Jūs manęs klausiate – kodėl aš taip ilgai laukiau? Ką gi, dėl džiaugsmo kartais verta ir eilėje palūkuriuoti. Matyt, geros naujienos šiandieniniame pasaulyje neskuba į mūsų namus.

Koks gyvenimo įvertinimas ar nutikimas jums yra pats svarbiausias?

Svarbiausias nutikimas mano šeimos ir mano gyvenime buvo pabėgimas nuo neišvengiamos žūties keturiasdešimt pirmaisiais metais iš Jonavos.

Prieš gerus metus paskelbėte, kad daugiau didelės apimties kūrinių nebus. Romanisto karjerą baigėte „Miestelio romansu“? Netikiu, kad rašytojas visiškai nerašo, manau, liko koks smulkusis žanras?

Mano amžiną atilsį tėvelis – įžymus siuvėjas – padėjo adatą ir nustojo čirksėti senoviniu „Zingeriu“ sulaukęs 80-ies. Jis nenorėjo siūti prasčiau nei prieš dešimtmetį. Aš jo ištikimas pasekėjas – nenoriu „siūti“ blogiau ir kartoti prasčiau tai, ką anksčiau parašiau dainuodamas, o ne stenėdamas. Tai liečia ir stambiąja prozą, ir smulkiąją – apsakymus. Rašytojas, nors ir ne iš geležies padarytas, bet, kaip geležis, deja, irgi rūdija.

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius

Grįžkime prie „Miestelio romanso“. Parašėte jį per devynis mėnesius. Ar sunki buvo kelionė namo, į vaikystę, ar lengva buvo atverti namų duris ir prisiminimus? Kokia vaikystės Jonava išliko jūsų prisiminimuose?

Mano kelionė į gimtinę nebuvo sunki, bet be galo liūdna, nes tos Jonavos, tų laikų neužmirštama Jonava seniai jau nebeegzistavo. Ją nušlavė karo viesulas. Atpažinau tik suirusias kapines ir seną sinagogą, kurioje įsikūrė kepykla. Senelės trobos palangėje sėdėjo svetimas gražuolis katinas. 

Norėjau savo kūriniuose „iškepti“ aną, prieškarinę draugišką, daugiatautę Jonavą. Kaip ją „iškepiau“ – ne man spręsti.

Sakykite, kas turėjo atsitikti, kad tiek amžių kartu gyvenę lietuviai ir žydai per kelias dienas, atėjus vokiečiams, tapo baisiais priešais? Kad kaimynas plėšė kaimyno turtą, kad kaimynas žudė kaimyną, su kurio vaiku jo vaikas žaidė? Kaip šėtonas taip suvelia žmogaus protą?

Klausimas rimtas. Tiesą pasakius, neginčijamo atsakymo neturiu. Tarybų Sąjunga ir Vokietija sukiršino žydus ir lietuvius. Mano manymu, nemažai lietuvių buvo įsitikinę, kad žydai pražudė Lietuvos nepriklausomybę, – bučiavo sovietų tankus. Nežinau, kaip kituose miesteliuose, bet Jonavoje jie bučiavo savo vaikus ir mylimas moteris, visai nesiruošdami pražudyti Lietuvos nepriklausomybės.

Neneigiu, kad dalis žydų simpatizavo Tarybų Sąjungai, tikėdamiesi, kad ji apgins juos nuo vokiškų fašistų.

Aš su ramia sąžine tvirtinu: dauguma žydų buvo paklusnūs ir lojalūs Lietuvos piliečiai, kurie jokiu būdu neturėjo užmačių ardyti valstybės pagrindus. Jų vienintelis gyvenimo tikslas buvo darbas ir taikus sugyvenimas.

Bet įvyko tai, kas įvyko.

Ne žydai prisišaukė į Lietuvą Raudonąją armiją, ne jie nuvertė teisėtą valdžią, Lietuva neteko šimtų tūkstančių savo piliečių ir taip nuskurdino save, padarydama sau didžiulę, neatitaisomą žalą. Kelias, kai žmonės verčia kaltę vienas kitam, yra beprasmiškas ir nevaisingas. Laikas žengti kartu ir draugiškai sugyventi.

Kada paskutinį kartą lankėtės Jonavoje ir Lietuvoje? Kiek ir kaip pasikeitė vaikystės miestas ir gimtoji šalis?

Jonavoje buvau labai seniai – prieš gerą dešimtmetį. Mano abu sūnūs pasakoja, kad Jonava palieka labai gerą įspūdį. Pasitikiu jų nuomone.

Jau daugiau nei 20 metų gyvenate Izraelyje. Pripratote prie pastovių neramumų kaimyninėje šalyje, kai į Izraelio pusę skrenda raketos? Ar kada pasibaigs šis konfliktas?

Žmonės pripranta gyventi netgi ugnikalnio papėdėje. Pripratau ir aš, ir mano ištikima palydovė – žmona Olga. Priprato, deja, ir visa žydų valstybė. Graudus tas pripratimas.

Nesu politikas ir nesu būrėjas. Galiu tik tvirtinti, kad ši vis beišsiveržianti ugnis pergyvens mane, gal pergyvens dar ir ne vieną izraeliečių kartą… Kol kas taika tėra tik svajonė ir stebuklingas sapnas.

Esate pasakęs: „Aš nesu žydų rašytojas, nes rašau rusiškai, aš nesu rusų rašytojas, nes rašau apie žydus, ir lietuvių rašytojas aš nesu, nes aš nerašau lietuviškai.“ Save galite pavadinti pasaulio piliečiu ar lietuviu, žydu? Ar tautybė XXI amžiuje turi didelę reikšmę? Ar rašytojui svarbi pilietybė?

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius

Rašytojas Grigorijus Kanovičius

Aš esu žydas ir tuo didžiuojuosi. Rašau apie žydus. Nesu pasaulio pilietis ir niekados nenorėjau juo būti. Nėra rašytojų be tautybės. Nedaliju savo simpatijų – vienodai linkiu laimės visoms šalims, kuriose aukščiausia vertybė yra žmogus, o ne įrašai paso skyreliuose: „tautybė, tikėjimas, lytis“.

Karo metus praleidote Kazachstane. Žinojote, kas vyksta Lietuvoje, bet karui pasibaigus grįžote į ją. Kodėl tuomet pasirinkote Vilnių?

Taip, dvejus alkanus karo metus praleidau Kazachstano stepėse, skurdžiame kolūkyje, netoli nuo čečėnų tremtinių lagerio. Naujienų turėjome tik iš stepių: „vakar sakalai suplėšė tris avis“. Apie Lietuvą niekas nieko nežinojo. Iš tolių toliausių žydai po kruvino karo į savo buvusius namus dažniausiai negrįžo. Nepanoro gyventi griuvėsiuose ir bylinėtis su jų trobas ir namus užėmusiais naujais šeimininkais. Dėl šitų ir kitų priežasčių, lyg susitarę, jie prieglobsčiu rinkdavosi arba kadaise garsėjusį pasaulyje žydų miestą Vilnių, arba Kauną.

Ar sovietmečiu neteko slėpti savo tautybės? Nejutote diskriminacijos? Pavyzdžiui, neskaudino, kad ir, atrodytų, paprasta vaikiška dainelė: „Imkim, vaikai, pagaliuką ir užmuškim tą žyduką…“

Niekados neslėpiau, kad esu žydas. Atvirą ar prastai užmaskuotą diskriminaciją jutau visą sovietmetį visoje SSRS, visur, kur teko pabūti. Visur buvo pakeltas tas pagalys iš tos vaikiškos dainuškos – tik šimteriopai sunkesnis…

Buvote aktyvus Sąjūdžio veikėjas. Dabar tenka išgirsti kai kuriuos Sąjūdžio dalyvius sakant: ne už tokią Lietuvą kovojome. Ar tokią Lietuvos viziją matėte tuomet?

Aš rėmiau visas Sąjūdžio idėjas. Buvau Sąjūdžio deputatas paskutinėje Gorbačiovo laikų Aukščiausioje Taryboje, važinėjau po pasaulį ir rinkau pinigus Lietuvai, agitavau už jos nepriklausomybę. Deja, ne visos visų svajonės išsipildė. Daugelį jų sugriovė visai neromantiška tikrovė. Tačiau aš ligi šiolei tikiu, kad laisvės sąlygomis dar galima daug ką atgaivinti ir realizuoti. Aimanuoti žymiai lengviau nei dirbti ir aukotis dėl savo šalies geresnės ateities.

1989 metais Sąjūdis Jus iškėlė kandidatu į SSRS Aukščiausiosios Tarybos deputatus. Būdamas deputatu įkvėpėte 200 kitų deputatų pasirašyti laišką dėl rasizmo ir antisemitizmo grėsmių Sovietų Sąjungoje, įteiktą Michailui Gorbačiovui. Kas nuo to laiko pasikeitė pasaulyje?

Kai aš buvau Sąjūdžio deputatu Maskvoje, rūpinausi ne tik lietuvių reikalais. Inicijavau laišką Gorbačiovui apie stiprėjantį antisemitizmą SSRS. Laišką pasirašė 200 įvairių tautybių deputatų. Nuo to laiko niekas nepasikeitė – antisemitizmas ir rasizmas ne tik nenugalėti, bet net triumfuoja.

Debiutavote kaip poetas, Jūsų poetinį jausmą paveldėjo ir sūnus Sergejus. Kaip vertinate jo kūrybą, duodate jam patarimų?

Mano sūnaus Sergejaus poeto ir prozininko gabumus vertinu gana gerai. Apgailestauju, kad dėl kitų svarbių darbų jis retokai draugauja su savo talentinga ir originalia plunksna.

Esate parašęs keletą scenarijų filmams. Kuris filmas labiausiai atitiko Jūsų literatūrinį matymą?

Geriausiu mano filmu (scenarijaus bendraautoris – I. Fridbergas) laikau „Tallinnfilm“ pastatytą „Lizdas vėjyje“.

Jūsų kūryba išversta į, berods, 12 kalbų. Visas užsienyje išleistas knygas turite? Įsivaizduojate, koks gali būti bendras knygų tiražas?

Kai mano knygų tiražas perkopė pusantro milijono vienetų, aš nustojau skaičiavęs.

Grįžkime prie Vilniaus mažajame teatre Rimo Tumino režisuoto spektaklio „Nusišypsok mums, viešpatie…“, sukurto pagal jūsų kūrybą. Jame vaidinęs ir Choinė-Genecho personažą sukūręs aktorius Vytautas Šapranauskas savo noru pasitraukė iš gyvenimo. Jums, turinčiam didžiulę gyvenimo patirtį, žinančiam, kas yra netektys ir Holokausto baisumai, kaip atrodo: kas turi atsitikti žmogui, kuris vienintelį savo turtą – gyvybę – nutaria nutraukti savo rankomis?

Velionis Vytautas Šapranauskas buvo reto talento aktorius. Aš visados žavėjausi jo vaidyba, komizmo ir tragizmo junginiu. Jame buvo tiek gyvybės, kad jos, atrodė, turėjo užtekti šimtmečiui. Savižudybę visuomet gaubia įvairios apkalbos ir spėliojimai. Nebuvau jo artimas draugas, nedrįstu spėlioti, kodėl jis taip pasielgė, nes jokios prielaidos nepadės mums suvokti tikrų tos tragedijos priežasčių. Mes jų niekad nesužinosime.

2013-aisiais Jonavoje buvo įsteigta jūsų vardo premija mokiniams už rašinius, parašytus tema „Jonavos tautinių mažumų gyvenimo ženklai – miesto istorijos liudytojai“. Kodėl ir kaip kilo ši mintis, gal planuojate, kad ši premija taps respublikine?

Šią premiją įsteigti sugalvojo abu mano sūnūs. Aš jiems už tą sumanymą labai dėkingas. Premijos tikslas kilnus – skatinti ir stiprinti tautinių mažumų draugystę ir bendradarbiavimą su lietuviais.

Jūsų žmona Olga – ištikima gyvenimo palydovė, kuri redaguoja ir Jūsų romanus. Sakykite, kokia ilgo ir laimingo šeimyninio gyvenimo paslaptis?

Su žmona Olga esame drauge nuo 1952-ųjų. Tokio bendrabūvio receptas vienas – pagarba ir tolerancija. Arba, seniokiškai tariant, nerūdijanti meile.

Koks žmogus gali vadintis Jūsų draugu? Ir kas yra Jūsų draugai?

Mano draugų pasaulėžiūra yra panaši į mano, gal mano panaši į jų… Turiu daug draugų. Visų pirma tai gausūs mano skaitytojai.

Kaip atleidžiate nuoskaudas? O gal tiesiog nemokate supykti?

Gal ir nekuklu taip sakyt, bet nesu kerštingas, priešingai – esu atlaidus.

Abu jūsų sūnūs Sergejus ir Dmitrijus negyvena Lietuvoje. Kas turėtų atsitikti, kad jie, kaip ir daugelis išeivių iš Lietuvos, kalbu ir apie lietuvius, kitų tautybių žmones, grįžtų į gimtinę? Manau, nesvarbu, kokia tavo tautybė, svetimame krašte vis tiek svetimas jausiesi. Koks Jūsų požiūris į emigraciją, kai Lietuva neteko (ar netenka) ketvirtadalio gyventojų?

Laisvas žmogus turi teisę rinktis. Mano abu sūnūs paliko Lietuvą – vyresnysis emigravo iš antisemitinės Sovietų Sąjungos, o jaunesnysis atsisveikino su Lietuva gelbėdamas leukemija susirgusį mažametį sūnų.

Masinė emigracija, be abejo, didelis blogis. Aš ją palyginčiau su Tėvynės nukraujavimu. Lietuvą galima tik užjausti.

Ir pabaigai – kada sulauksime Jūsų Lietuvoje besisvečiuojančio, pasirašinėjančio ant prabangiai išleisto raštų penkiatomio? Ar kitų romanų?

Vargu, tačiau norėtųsi tikėti, kad tokia kelionė dar įvyks.

Vertinimas: 5.0. Balsų skaičius: 2
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    ซึ่งมีลักษณะเป็นวงล้อกลมๆหมุนไปตามแรงเหวี่ยง เมื่อตกลงที่พวกเราเลือกก็จะชนะไป เมื่อเกมจำพวกนี้ถูกปรับเข้ามาอยู่ในเว็บไซต์ ที่ให้บริการเกี่ยวกับพนันออนไลน์ จะมีการเพิ่มหนทางการเล่นที่มากขึ้นบางเว็บบางครั้งอาจจะใช้วงล้อแบบที่สามารถลุ้นอย่างอื่นได้ด้วย ไม่ว่าจะเป็น การใส่ตัวเลขรอบวง หรือ
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